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FidoNews · Vol 30, No 49 · 09 Dec 2013

     The  F I D O N E W S      Volume 30, Number 49             09 Dec 2013 
     +--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
     | |The newsletter of the | |                                         |
     | |  FidoNet community.  | | Netmail attach to (POTS):               |
     | |                      | |          Editor @ 2:2/2 (+46-31-960447) |
     | |          ____________| |                                         |
     | |         /  __          | Netmail attach to (BinkP):              |
     | |        /  /  \         |          Editor @ 2:203/0               |
     | | WOOF! (  /|oo \        |                                         |
     |  \_______\(_|  /_)       | Email attach to:                        |
     |            _ @/_ \    _  |          b @ felten dot se              |
     |           |     | \   \\ |                                         |
     |           | (*) |  \   ))|                                         |
     |           |__U__| /  \// |         Editor: Björn Felten            |
     |   ______   _//|| _\   /  |                                         |
     |  / Fido \ (_/(_|(____/   |   Newspapers should have no friends.    |
     | (________)       (jm)    |                    -- JOSEPH PULITZER   |
     +--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+


                        Table of Contents
     1. FOOD FOR THOUGHT  .........................................  1
     2. EDITORIAL  ................................................  2
     3. GENERAL ARTICLES  .........................................  3
        Why a vote cast is a vote cast  ...........................  3
        Ruling on the protests in the FTSC election  .............. 17
     4. FTSC INFORMATION  ......................................... 20
        2013 standing member election final result  ............... 20
     5. JAMNNTPD SERVERS LIST  .................................... 25
        The Johan Billing JamNNTPd project  ....................... 25
     6. FIDONEWS'S FIDONET SOFTWARE LISTING  ...................... 26
        FidoNet Software References  .............................. 26
     7. SPECIAL INTEREST  ......................................... 31
        Nodelist Stats  ........................................... 31
     8. FIDONEWS INFORMATION  ..................................... 33
        How to Submit an Article  ................................. 33
        Credits, Legal Infomation, Availability  .................. 35
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 1                    9 Dec 2013


     =================================================================
                             FOOD FOR THOUGHT
     =================================================================

     The best way to take control over a people
     and control them utterly
     is to take a little of their freedom at a time,
     to erode rights by a thousand tiny
     and almost imperceptible reductions.

     In this way, the people will not see those rights
     and freedoms being removed until past the point
     at which these changes cannot be reversed.

                          -- Adolf Hitler


     -----------------------------------------------------------------
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 2                    9 Dec 2013


     =================================================================
                                 EDITORIAL
     =================================================================

     Talk of the fido town the last month has been what really should be
     just a formality. The yearly FTSC election.

     Unfortunately a few people managed to change this formality into a
     political soap opera.

     This, of course, has caused a lot of extra work and time upon the
     election coordinator. Work and time that he could have spent on much
     more fruitful projects.

     I guess nobody will thank Michiel for all the time he's spent on
     Fidonet in general and the FTSC in particular, so here's one official
     gratitude from the Fidonews editor:

     Thank you Michiel for all that you are doing for our network, and may
     you never be discouraged by the trolls that over and over again try
     to throw wrenches into the machinery that you are spending so much
     time and effort into assisting.


     -----------------------------------------------------------------
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 3                    9 Dec 2013


     =================================================================
                             GENERAL ARTICLES
     =================================================================

                     Why a vote cast is a vote cast.
                     By Michiel van der Vlist, 2:280/5555


     In the 2010 FSTC election Björn Felten requested that
     he be allowed to correct his already cast vote. The
     EC responded with "let me sleep on it". This is a
     summary of the storm of protest that followed. Read
     and judge for yourself...

     ==== begin ====

     == 38937 ================================================
     Date        : 16 Nov 10  18:22:54
     From        : Ross Cassell                    1:123/456
     To          : Michiel van der Vlist
     Subject     : Votes received.
     --------------------------------------------------------
     AREA:FTSC_PUBLIC
     Hello Michiel!

     16 Nov 10 22:36, you wrote to Björn Felten:

      MV> Hmmm... I don't know. There is no provision in the rules
      MV> for changing a vote that is already cast. OTOH, the rules do
      MV> not forbid it either. I lean towards allowing it, but only
      MV> if there are no serious objections from the constituency.
      MV> It will set a precedent either way. So let me sleep on it.

     I protest in the name of protocol..

     If it is not in the rules, then it is not in the rules.. Changing
     the rules with a vote in progress is unheard of.

     I submit:

     Had the 2 no votes not been cast, Bjorn would not be pleading to
     change his, therefore his regret over his own vote, is a sad
     consequence.

     I neither cast and up or down vote for Alexey just to avoid being cast
     in some negative light, but held back such vote because he did come
     across as worrying more about nit picking others than anything else..

     Since Sweden is the cradle of Democracy, I fail to see why Bjorn is
     scornful of others making a concious decision.

     Do not allow revotes, what you gonna do, allow others to change their
     votes if they dont like the direction the outcome is heading?

     NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 4                    9 Dec 2013


     Now if you want, you can after the election, put in a rule or rule
     change, which I still would object to a revote, but you could change
     the format to allow a yes vote or a non-vote, then each candidate
     would have to score 50% or 50%+1 of all voters(*) counted. You of
     course would be making this suggestion to the full FTSC, where we
     would fight over it and not ever agree.

     (*) If 20 voters then 10 or 11 yes votes needed.

     However I could see someone pitching a fit over non-votes and wanting
     to change their vote, see what happens here..

     Dont tilt at windmills Michiel, be strong, I am here for you!

     Of course you could make the balloting secret, only publishing the
     results after the election concluded, that would be a viable option.

     I can see you balking at this, but you could publicly acknowledge in
     here... "RC such and such voted" But dont publish the actual vote,
     until it is all tallied and too late.

     Felten, you know better than this. You must know ride down downtown
     Stockholm, nude on a moose with a Wolf on the loose.

     ==
     Ross
     Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader:
     http://www.easternstar.info
     E-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Other Places: http://links.cassell.us

     We hoped and we got change!

     ... Liberals hold others to standards that they wont hold to
     themselves.
     -+- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
      + Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)

     == 38943 ================================================
     Date        : 16 Nov 10  21:24:13
     From        : Ross Cassell                    1:123/456
     To          : Michiel van der Vlist
     Subject     : Votes received.
     --------------------------------------------------------
     AREA:FTSC_PUBLIC
     Hello Michiel!

     17 Nov 10 01:40, you wrote to me:

      RC>> If it is not in the rules, then it is not in the rules..

      MV> Indeed, it is not in the rules. They do not explicitly allow
      MV> nor forbid it. So it can go either way.

     I think that when it comes to something like this, one should not
     fall back and say well the rules dont forbid it either.

     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 5                    9 Dec 2013


     You leave room open for someone (a candidate) to protest the vote.

     You also leave room open for others (RC's and REC's) to also want
     to change their vote.

     As it is, with each vote you receive, you ack it then follow it
     with a tally of all votes counted thus far, including the one you
     just acked, now if you allow Bjorn to recast, you are going to
     have to allow others to recast, then you get a pissing match if
     others decide to recast ballots to counteract other recast votes..

     Dont open the box Pandora!

     ==
     Ross
     Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader:
     http://www.easternstar.info
     E-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Other Places: http://links.cassell.us

     We hoped and we got change!

     ... Taxes are the sexual aphrodesiac for every Democrat.
     -+- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
      + Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)

     == 38944 ================================================
     Date        : 16 Nov 10  21:48:20
     From        : Janis Kracht                     1:261/38
     To          : Ross Cassell
     Subject     : Votes received.
     --------------------------------------------------------
     AREA:FTSC_PUBLIC
     Hi Ross,

     > I protest in the name of protocol..

     > If it is not in the rules, then it is not in the rules.. Changing
     > the rules with a vote in progress is unheard of.

     Thank you Ross for pointing this out.

     !! Note to Michiel:   where do you draw the line if you allow this?
     I'm curious if you've thought it through.


     Take care,
     Janis

     -+- BBBS/LiI v4.01 Flag
      + Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

     == 38945 ================================================
     Date        : 16 Nov 10  21:51:58
     From        : Janis Kracht                     1:261/38
     To          : Michiel van der Vlist
     Subject     : Votes received.
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 6                    9 Dec 2013


     --------------------------------------------------------
     AREA:FTSC_PUBLIC
     Hello Michiel,


     >>> Hmmm... I don't know. There is no provision in the rules for
     >>> changing a vote thais already cast. OTOH, the rules do not forbid
     >>> it either. I lean towards allowing it, but only if there are no
     >>> serious objections from the constituency. It will set a precedent
     >>> either way. So let me sleep on it.

     >> I protest in the name of protocol..

     > Noted. And as someone with voting rights your opinion carries
     > weight.

     Of course it does, my friend.. but please do not forget who asked
     their RCs to put you in office!

     >> If it is not in the rules, then it is not in the rules..

     Michiel, if you allow this, where do you draw the line as to WHEN
     people may change their vote??  And at WHAT point do you tell people
     when that point is?

     When you've seen that enough RCs and RECs have said to you, Ok, this
     is my final vote.  For goodness sake, you sound like a game show host
     over here asking people, "Is that your final answer??"

     Seriously..

     Take care,
     Janis

     -+- BBBS/LiI v4.01 Flag
      + Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)


     == 38956 ================================================
     Date        : 16 Nov 10  23:12:12
     From        : Joe Delahaye                    1:249/303
     To          : Ross Cassell
     Subject     : Votes received.
     --------------------------------------------------------
     AREA:FTSC_PUBLIC
       Re: Votes received.
       By: Ross Cassell to Michiel van der Vlist on Tue Nov 16 2010 18:22:5

      > I protest in the name of protocol..
      >
      > If it is not in the rules, then it is not in the rules.. Changing
      > the rules with a vote in progress is unheard of.
      >

     I have to agree with that.  Once a vote is cast, it is done.
     -+- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 7                    9 Dec 2013


      + Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)

     == 39014 ================================================
     Date        : 17 Nov 10  00:04:00
     From        : Michael Luko                    1:266/512
     To          : Michiel Van Der Vlist
     Subject     : Votes received.
     --------------------------------------------------------
     AREA:FTSC_PUBLIC
     -> Hmmm... I don't know. There is no provision in the rules for
     -> changing a vote thais already cast. OTOH, the rules do not forbid
     -> it either. I lean towards allowing it, but only if there are no
     -> serious objections from the constituency. It will set a precedent
     -> either way. So let me sleep on it.

         I could see allowing a resubmission based on a technicality or
     misunderstanding but not just based on how the voting is proceding.
     Unless you are in a vote for one amongst different candidates and the
     candidate in which the voter voted dropped out of the race. Then I
     could see allowing those who voted for the dropped candidate to
     resubmit a vote amongst the remaining candidates. I had a case last
     year where I wasn't very clear that on my regional feed back poll
     that each candidate was up for election. So I allowed those who only
     voted for one candidate to resubmit their ballot indicating a vote
     for each candidate unless of course they were actually abstaining
     on that candidate.


         If you allow changes based on the way someone doesn't like the way
     the results are going. You could run into the problem well so and so
     was able to change their vote because they didn't like the way things
     were going then I can do the same. We could have an never ending
     election process with everyone constantly changing ballots.

     -+- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
      + Origin: Christian Fellowship | cfbbs.dtdns.net 856-933-7096
       (1:266/512)

     == 39008 ================================================
     Date        : 17 Nov 10  00:09:56
     From        : Jon Justvig                       1:298/5
     To          : Ross Cassell
     Subject     : Votes received.
     --------------------------------------------------------
     AREA:FTSC_PUBLIC

     > Of course you could make the balloting secret, only publishing the
     > results after the election concluded, that would be a viable option.
     > I can see you balking at this, but you could publicly acknowledge in
     > here... "RC such and such voted" But dont publish the actual vote,
     > until it is all tallied and too late.

     I really agree with this.  Seeing votes will also tell others to vote
     for this person and not this person.  It done secretly and having the
     final vote seems like the fair way to me.  Like pick a number out of
     a jar, if you win you win.
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 8                    9 Dec 2013


     <g>

     Sincerely,
     Jon Justvig

     -+- BBBS/LiI v4.10 Dada-1
      + Origin: Nightfall Ordain (1:298/5) (1:298/5)

     == 39015 ================================================
     Date        : 17 Nov 10  00:17:00
     From        : Michael Luko                    1:266/512
     To          : Ross Cassell
     Subject     : Votes received.
     --------------------------------------------------------
     AREA:FTSC_PUBLIC
     -> You also leave room open for others (RC's and REC's) to also want
     -> to change their vote.
     -> As it is, with each vote you receive, you ack it then follow it
     -> with a tally of all votes counted thus far, including the one you
     -> acked, now if you allow Bjorn to recast, you are going to have to
     -> just allow others to recast, then you get a pissing match if others
     -> decide to recast ballots to counteract other recast votes..
     -> Dont open the box Pandora!

     Or opening a can of worms. :) The voting could go on forever and no
     where fast.

     -+- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
      + Origin: Christian Fellowship | cfbbs.dtdns.net 856-933-7096
       (1:266/512)

     == 39011 ================================================
     Date        : 17 Nov 10  00:20:48
     From        : Jon Justvig                       1:298/5
     To          : Joe Delahaye
     Subject     : Votes received.
     --------------------------------------------------------
     AREA:FTSC_PUBLIC

     > Re: Votes received.
     > By: Ross Cassell to Michiel van der Vlist on Tue Nov 16 2010 18:22:5
     >> I protest in the name of protocol..
     >>
     >> If it is not in the rules, then it is not in the rules.. Changing
     >> the rules with a vote in progress is unheard of.
     >>

     > I have to agree with that.  Once a vote is cast, it is done.

     Sounds like a few kids in kindergarden to me. <g>

     Sincerely,
     Jon Justvig

     -+- BBBS/LiI v4.10 Dada-1
      + Origin: Nightfall Ordain (1:298/5) (1:298/5)
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 9                    9 Dec 2013


     == 38939 ================================================
     Date        : 17 Nov 10  01:40:37
     From        : Michiel van der Vlist          2:280/5555
     To          : Ross Cassell
     Subject     : Votes received.
     --------------------------------------------------------
     AREA:FTSC_PUBLIC
     Hello Ross,

     On Tuesday November 16 2010 18:22, you wrote to me:

      MV>> Hmmm... I don't know. There is no provision in the rules for
      MV>> changing a vote thais already cast. OTOH, the rules do not
      MV>> forbid it either. I lean towards allowing it, but only if there
      MV>> are no serious objections from the constituency. It will set a
      MV>> precedent either way. So let me sleep on it.

      RC> I protest in the name of protocol..

     Noted. And as someone with voting rights your opinion carries weight.

      RC> If it is not in the rules, then it is not in the rules..

     Indeed, it is not in the rules. They do not explicitly allow nor
     forbid it. So it can go either way.

      RC> Changing the rules with a vote in progress is unheard of.

     There is a difference between changing the rules and changing a vote.
     Changing the rules while the game is afoot is unheard of. Changing a
     vote is not. Not in this part of the world anyway. Changing a once
     cast vote is only problematic when votes are anonymous, as in that
     case it is not possible to know what the originally cast vote was that
     is to be retracted. In open elections this problem does not exist, so
     I see no basic problem.

     As a matter of fact, my RC - responding to my recomendation to consult
     the region - is now collecting votes from the sysops in the region
     over this very election. One sysop casted a vote that he retracted
     next day and cast a new one. My RC accepted. So it is not unheard of.

      RC> I submit:

      RC> Had the 2 no votes not been cast, Bjorn would not be pleading to
      RC> change his, therefore his regret over his own vote, is a sad
      RC> consequence.

     Possibly. It is however not for the vote collector or anyone else to
     question the motives of the voter. The same applies to a voter who
     requests a change of vote. When we deny it to one, we must deny it to
     all. When we allow it for one, we must allow it for all. Irrespective
     of the voter's motives.

     Let's sleep on it.

     Cheers, Michiel
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 10                   9 Dec 2013


     -+- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20070503
      + Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

     == 39083 ================================================
     Date        : 17 Nov 10  09:22:28
     From        : Jon Justvig                       1:298/5
     To          : Björn Felten
     Subject     : Votes received.
     --------------------------------------------------------
     AREA:FTSC_PUBLIC

     >> I really agree with this. Seeing votes will also tell others to
     >> vote for this person and not this person.

     > I totally agree. I was thinking wrongly. In the Swedish governmental
     > elections you can vote as many times you like, the votes are given a
     > time stam and the latest vote counts. But that's a closed election,
     > in an open election like this, of course you should not be allowed
     > to change your vote once it's being passed.

     > Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I stand corrected. Please forget my
     > suggestion
     > ASAP!

     Forgiven.  Just this time and this time only (sales pitch). <g>

     Sincerely,
     Jon Justvig

     -+- BBBS/LiI v4.10 Dada-1
      + Origin: Nightfall Ordain -- stepping.synchro.net:8080 (1:298/5)

     == 39084 ================================================
     Date        : 17 Nov 10  09:27:34
     From        : Jon Justvig                       1:298/5
     To          : Michiel Van Der Vlist
     Subject     : Votes received.
     --------------------------------------------------------
     AREA:FTSC_PUBLIC

     > Hello Janis,
     > On Tuesday November 16 2010 21:48, you wrote to Ross Cassell:

     >> !! Note to Michiel:   where do you draw the line if you allow this?
     >> I'm curious if you've thought it through.

     > I said I was going to sleep on it didn't I? Whan I wrote that, I
     > already realised that without drawing lines things could get messy
     > if recasting votes were allowed.

     You said that but you must have a had a short nap. <g>

     > In the meantime I have slept on it.

     Bright and fitten like a kitten wearing mittens. <g>

     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 11                   9 Dec 2013


     > However... the request for a recast is withdrawn, so we can drop the
     > issue.

     Thank goodness.  I wonder too if this was thought all the way through.
     None-the-less it is resolved and we can go on with our merry lives.

     Sincerely,
     Jon Justvig

     -+- BBBS/LiI v4.10 Dada-1
      + Origin: Nightfall Ordain -- stepping.synchro.net:8080 (1:298/5)

     == 39104 ================================================
     Date        : 17 Nov 10  10:55:00
     From        : Bob Seaborn                      1:140/12
     To          : Ross Cassell
     Subject     : Votes received.
     --------------------------------------------------------
     AREA:FTSC_PUBLIC

     For what it's worth, I fully agree.  Once a vote is posted, and
     acknowledged, it MUST stand as posted.  No second thoughts, no
     changing!

      > Hello Michiel!
      >
      > 16 Nov 10 22:36, you wrote to Bj-rn Felten:
      >
      >MV> Hmmm... I don't know. There is no provision in the rules for
      >MV> changing a vote thais already cast. OTOH, the rules do not
      >MV> forbid it either. I lean towards allowing it, but only if there
      >NV> are no serious objectionsfrom the constituency. It will set a
      >MV> precedent either way. So let me sleep on it.
      >
      > I protest in the name of protocol..
      >
      > If it is not in the rules, then it is not in the rules.. Changing
      > the rules with a vote in progress is unheard of.
      >
      > I submit:
      >
      > Had the 2 no votes not been cast, Bjorn would not be pleading to
      > change his, therefore his regret over his own vote, is a sad
      > consequence.
      >
      > I neither cast and up or down vote for Alexey just to avoid being
      > cast in some negative light, but held back such vote because he did
      > come across as worrying more about nit picking others than anything
      > else..
      >
      > Since Sweden is the cradle of Democracy, I fail to see why Bjorn is
      > scornful of others making a concious decision.
      >
      > Do not allow revotes, what you gonna do, allow others to change
      > their votes if they dont like the direction the outcome is heading?
      >
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 12                   9 Dec 2013


      > NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      >
      > Now if you want, you can after the election, put in a rule or rule
      > change, which I still would object to a revote, but you could
      > change the format to allow a yes vote or a non-vote, then each
      > candidate would have to score 50% or 50%+1 of all voters(*)
      > counted. You of course would be making this suggestion to the full
      > FTSC, where we would fight over it and not ever agree.
      >
      > (*) If 20 voters then 10 or 11 yes votes needed.
      >
      > However I could see someone pitching a fit over non-votes and
      > wanting to change their vote, see what happens here..
      >
      > Dont tilt at windmills Michiel, be strong, I am here for you!
      >
      > Of course you could make the balloting secret, only publishing
      > the results after the election concluded, that would be a viable
      > option.
      >
      > I can see you balking at this, but you could publicly acknowledge
      > in here... "RC such and such voted" But dont publish the actual
      > vote, until it is all tallied and too late.
      >
      > Felten, you know better than this. You must know ride down
      > downtown Stockholm, nude on a moose with a Wolf on the loose.
      >
      > ==
      > Ross
      > Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader:
      > http://www.easternstar.infoE-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Other
      > Places: http://links.cassell.us
      >
      > We hoped and we got change!
      >
      > ... Liberals hold others to standards that they wont hold to
      > themselves.--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
      >  * Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)

     -+- GEcho/32 & IM 2.50
      + Origin: RC17 (email to rc17@fidonet.ca) (1:140/12)

     == 39035 ================================================
     Date        : 17 Nov 10  11:08:56
     From        : Björn Felten                     2:203/2
     To          : Jon Justvig
     Subject     : Votes received.
     --------------------------------------------------------
     AREA:FTSC_PUBLIC

      JJ> I really agree with this. Seeing votes will also tell others to
      JJ> vote for this person and not this person.

       I totally agree. I was thinking wrongly. In the Swedish governmental
     elections you can vote as many times you like, the votes are given a
     time stamp and the latest vote counts. But that's a closed election,
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 13                   9 Dec 2013


     in an open election like this, of course you should not be allowed to
     change your vote once it's being passed.

        Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I stand corrected. Please forget my
     suggestion ASAP!

     -+- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.2.12)
     Gecko/20101027
      + Origin: news://felten.yi.org (2:203/2)

     == 39062 ================================================
     Date        : 17 Nov 10  12:52:06
     From        : Michiel van der Vlist          2:280/5555
     To          : Janis Kracht
     Subject     : Votes received.
     --------------------------------------------------------
     AREA:FTSC_PUBLIC
     Hello Janis,

     On Tuesday November 16 2010 21:48, you wrote to Ross Cassell:

      JK> !! Note to Michiel:   where do you draw the line if you allow
      JK> this? I'm curious if you've thought it through.

     I said I was going to sleep on it didn't I? When I wrote that, I
     already realised that without drawing lines things could get messy
     if recasting votes were allowed.

     In the meantime I have slept on it.

     However... the request for a recast is withdrawn, so we can drop
     the issue.


     Cheers, Michiel

     -+- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20070503
      + Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

     == 39110 ================================================
     Date        : 17 Nov 10  13:49:30
     From        : Janis Kracht                     1:261/38
     To          : Michiel van der Vlist
     Subject     : Votes received.
     --------------------------------------------------------
     AREA:FTSC_PUBLIC
     Hi Michiel,

     >> !! Note to Michiel:   where do you draw the line if you allow this?
     >> I'm curious if you've thought it through.

     > I said I was going to sleep on it didn't I?

     Yes, you did.. Why you felt you had to say such a thing says a lot
     to me.

     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 14                   9 Dec 2013


     > However... the request for a recast is withdrawn, so we can drop
     > the issue.

     Take care,
     Janis

     -+- BBBS/LiI v4.01 Flag
      + Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

     == 39085 ================================================
     Date        : 17 Nov 10  16:50:14
     From        : Michiel van der Vlist          2:280/5555
     To          : Ross Cassell
     Subject     : Voting rules
     --------------------------------------------------------
     AREA:FTSC_PUBLIC
     Hello Ross,

     On Tuesday November 16 2010 18:22, you wrote to me:

      RC> Now if you want, you can after the election, put in a rule or
      RC> rule change,

     The rules are laid down in FTA-1000. I do not have the mandate to
     change that all by my self.

      RC> course would be making this suggestion to the full FTSC, where
      RC> we would fight over it and not ever agree.

     That's FidoNet for you. We can never reach consesnsus, so trying to
     change the election rules wpould probably be the umpteenth exercise in
     futility.

      RC> Of course you could make the balloting secret, only publishing
      RC> the results after the election concluded, that would be a viable
      RC> option.

     A secret ballot is fine if all the voters are in the same room, write
     their vote on a voting slip, which are then thrown in a hat and
     counted.

     If they are not physically in the same room with the vote collector(s)
     there is nothing that stops the vote collector from manipulating the
     votes. It has happened. Even in R28.


     Cheers, Michiel

     -+- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20070503
      + Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

     == 39264 ================================================
     Date        : 18 Nov 10  16:46:26
     From        : Roger Nelson                     1:3828/7
     To          : Michiel van der Vlist
     Subject     : Votes received.
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 15                   9 Dec 2013


     --------------------------------------------------------
     AREA:FTSC_PUBLIC
     On Tue 2010-Nov-16 22:36, Michiel van der Vlist (2:2/20) wrote to
     Björn Felten:

      MvdV> Hello Björn,

      MvdV> On Tuesday November 16 2010 14:23, you wrote to me:

      BF>    Dear Mr. Voting Admin, I only voted for the two persons that
      BF> I know from way back, but please accept my alternate vote:

      MvdV> Hmmm... I don't know. There is no provision in the rules
      MvdV> for changing a vote thais already cast. OTOH, the rules do not
      MvdV> forbid it either. I lean towards allowing it, but only if there
      MvdV> are no serious objections from the constituency. It will set a
      MvdV> precedent either way. So let me sleep on it.

     I wouldn't.  Once a vote is cast, it is done.  If you allow this you
     will be opening Pandora's Box.


     Regards,

     Roger
     -+- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
      + Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LA - (1:3828/7)
     == 39267 ================================================
     Date        : 18 Nov 10  21:04:09
     From        : mark lewis                      1:3634/12
     To          : Michiel van der Vlist
     Subject     : Votes received.
     --------------------------------------------------------
     AREA:FTSC_PUBLIC

      BF>    Dear Mr. Voting Admin, I only voted for the two persons that
      BF> I know from way back, but please accept my alternate vote:

      MvdV> Hmmm... I don't know. There is no provision in the rules for
      MvdV> changing a vote thais already cast. OTOH, the rules do not
      MvdV> forbid it either. I lean towards allowing it, but only if there
      MvdV> are no serious objections from the constituency. It will set a
      MvdV> precedent either way. So let me sleep on it.

      RN> I wouldn't.  Once a vote is cast, it is done.  If you allow this
      RN> you will be opening Pandora's Box.

     i have to agree... it has never been done before and it is not allowed
     in any other voting procedures that i'm aware of... if there is a
     procedure for a revote, then that would possibly come into play
     depending on the circumstances...

     one might also take a look at history and look at the negative votes
     i got for my actions during the campanging portion of the last
     election process ;)

     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 16                   9 Dec 2013


     )\/(ark

      + Origin:  (1:3634/12)

     ==== end ====

     With thanks to Kees van Eeten for opening his archive.

     ╕ Michiel van der Vlist, all rights reserved.
     Permission to publish in the FIDONEWS file echo, the FIDONEWS dis-
     cussion echo and the FNEWS_PUBLISH echo as originating from 2:2/2.



     -----------------------------------------------------------------
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 17                   9 Dec 2013


             Ruling on the protests in the FTSC electeion
             By Michiel van der Vlist, Election coordinator 2:2/20


     A protest was filed by three parties. One by RC17, Bob Seaborn
     and one by ZC1, Janis Kracht and one by Ross Cassel RC18.

     An attempt at mediation by Scott Little has failed for lack of
     respons from RC14 and RC17.

     Regarding the protest filed by Bob Seaborn, RC17:

      BS> Is it my fault that that MY keyboard and video doees not
      BS> support non-english characters?

     1) The sysop is responsible for what his system injects into
        the network. So if this presumed non-support of those
        characters results in errors, then yes, the sysop is responsible.

     2) Although it is not in the ASCII character set, characters with
        a diaresis /are/ part of the English characters set, notably
        in some English names: Emily Brontë, Noël Coward and the
        constellation of Boötes. The fact that the diaresis is usually
        omitted in US English does not change the fact that the o with
        diaresis IS part of the character set used in English.


      BS> Furthermore, after thinking about it, I do note that the rules of
      BS> this echo, as posted by yourself dated 19 November 2013 states
      BS> that the language of the echo is English:

     3) The fact that the language for discussion is English, does not
        exclude the use of names that are not English. If it were, names
        as Delahaye (French) and Dossche (Dutch) would also have to be
        banned.

     4) The use of non ASCII characters in messages is a Fidonet standard
        laid down in FTS-5003. While it is understandable that sysops
        who have no use for other languages than US English have not
        installed translation tables for non-ASCII character sets, this
        can never be used as an excuse for a mangled vote.

     5) The claim that the name of the candidate on the form was changed
        to "Bjerk" by the software and the software alone, has no credi-
        bility. The vertical lines were all in place. This was deliberate.


     Regarding the protest by Ross Cassel RC18:

        His own vote was processed without problems and to his staisfaction
        he has little reason to complain.

     He has however provided some input on the votes of the two RCs that
     cast a vote for "Bjerk" and so have some others.

     Regarding the use of names of candidates not exactly as they are in
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 18                   9 Dec 2013


     the nodelist:

     1) It is common practise that sysops do not always use the exact name
        as nodelisted in their messages. Some use short forms like "Bob"
        for "Robert", some use "middle names". Like Robert "Jame" Clay.

     2) It has been custom to list the candidates with the names they
        present in their own messages or the name as posted by the nomi-
        nator. The name may or may not be exactly the same as that in the
        nodelist. The sysop listed as RJ Clay has been on the list of
        candidates as Robert "Jame" Clay since 2011. No one ever made an
        issue out of that.

     Regarding identifying the candidate by the node number:

     1) We vote for people, not numbers. The node number is just there so
        that everyone can quickly check if the candidate fulfills the
        requirement of being the sysop of a nodelisted system.
        It may also help when there are two candidates with the same or
        a similar name.

     "The intentions of the voter were clear":

     1) Yes, there is little doubt that Bob Seaborn intended to cast a "no"
        vote for Björn Felten. But when we start going by intentions, there
        is also little doubt that he intended to do more than that. He
        intended to add an insult. This was not just a typo, or replacing a
        non ASCII character with something the software could handle like
        "oe" or "o". This was a deliberate name change with the intent to
        insult. Such actions should have consequences.

     "The rules are not clear"

     1) The instructions for the voters were clear enough: Take the form
        and put crosses in the "yes" or "no" spots. It did not say "and
        change the names of the candidates to an insult you see fit".

        It is common practise in most countries that changing anything othe
        than putting marks at the indicated spots, invalidates the vote.
        In my own country it invalidates the vote entirely and there is no
        second chance. Had I followed this local custom, I would have dis-
        missed BS's vote for all the candidates, not just the vote for
        "Bjerk". So the "why should he risk that the vote for his own
        nominee was dismissed?" has to be answered with: I do not know,
        but he certainly /did/ take that risk.

        When I was a school boy, it sometimes happened that one of us
        pulled a prank. Itching powder on the teacher's seat, a stink bomb
        that went off in chemistry class. That sort of thing. And then when
        caught, we accepted the consequences. We took the punishment and at
        the end of the day, we counted our marbles and moved on. We didn't
        fight it out to the supreme court!


        There is no candidate named "Bjerk", therefore votes for "Bjerk"
        are dismissed as invalid.
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 19                   9 Dec 2013


     Regarding recasting votes:

        I refer to what happened in the 2010 election when I had the evil
        thought of considering it when Björn Felten asked for a recast of
        his vote. Let me take just this one from the many reactions:

        BS> For what it's worth, I fully agree.  Once a vote is posted, and
        BS> acknowledged, it MUST stand as posted.  No second thoughts, no
        BS> changing!

        All the arguments against allowing a recast that were forwarded in
        2010 still apply. Where do we draw the line? Do not open this box
        of Pandorra!

        Some have argued that there is a difference between correcting an
        error and changing the vote. It is however just putting another
        label on what is the same thing: an atempt to influence the outcome
        after one has cast one's vote.


     Regarding the protest filed by Janis Kracht, ZC1:

        Janis Kracht is not a candidate or a voter. As such she is not
        directly involved in the election. Also, ZCs have no special
        standing in this. There is nothing in either the election rules or
        P4 that says they may act, speak or protest on behalf of an RC.
        Also no request was received from Jon Justvig to the effect that
        Janis Kracht be allowed to act as his proxy in this election.
        Therefore the protest filed by Janis Kracht is dismissed. From the
        multiple votes cast by Jon Justvig only the first is accepted for
        the same reason that only the first vote of Bob Seaborn was
        accepted.


     So here is my ruling:

     The election result stands as published earlier.

     This ruling is final. There is no appeal.


     Michiel van der Vlist
     FTSC Election Coordinator.



     -----------------------------------------------------------------
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 20                   9 Dec 2013


     =================================================================
                             FTSC INFORMATION
     =================================================================

                     2103 standing member election, final result
                     By Michiel van der Vlist, election coordinator 2:2/20


     All times in UTC.

     Voting for FTSC membership has come to end. There were protests
     regarding the votes cast by RC14 and RC17. This has not altered
     the previously published preliminary result.

     The result published below is the final result.

     Eighteen RC's from three zones have voted.

       Bob Seaborn           RC17
       Torsten Bamberg       RC24
       Björn Felten          RC20
       Joe Delahaye          RC12
       Andrew Leary          RC16
       Phil Kimble           RC15
       Ruedi Kneubuehler     RC30
       Jon Justvig           RC14
       Rj Clay               RC11
       Torbjörn Mohn         RC21
       Marc Lewis            RC19
       Vladimir Donskoy      RC50
       Kurt Weiske           RC10
       Michael Luko          RC13
       Tommi Koivula         RC22
       Ross Cassel           RC18
       Paul Quinn            RC54
       Michiel van der Vlist RC28


     There were eight candidates and the votes are as follows:

        ----------------------------------------------
       | Name                 |  Node nr    | Yes| No |
       |----------------------|-------------|----|----|
       | Robert "Jame" Clay   |  1:120/544  | 18 |    |
       | Dallas Hinton        |  1:153/715  | 14 | 2  |
       | Mark Hofmann         |  1:261/1304 | 15 | 1  |
       | Björn Felten         |  2:203/2    | 7  | 5  |
       | Markus Reschke       |  2:240/1661 | 13 | 1  |
       | Michiel van der Vlist|  2:280/5555 | 11 | 7  |
       | Dimitry Romanov      |  2:6078/1   | 13 | 1  |
       | andrew clarke        |  3:633/267  | 18 |    |
        ----------------------------------------------


     All candidates collected more "yes" than "no" votes and therefore
     all are accepted into the FTSC. Their 2 year term starts on Monday
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 21                   9 Dec 2013


     9 december 2013 00:00 and ends two years later.


     Michiel van der Vlist
     FTSC Election Coordinator 2:2/20




     -----------------------------------------------------------------
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 22                   9 Dec 2013


     **********************************************************************
     FTSC                             FIDONET TECHNICAL STANDARDS COMMITTEE
     **********************************************************************

     Publication:  FTA-1003
     Revision:     19
     Title:        FTSC Membership List
     Author:       Administrator
     Issue Date:   9 December 2013
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     Contents:
                     1. FTSC Administrator
                     2. FTSC Standing Members
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------


     1. FTSC Administrator
     ---------------------

       Michiel van der Vlist, 2:280/5555. Term ends 12 October 2015

     2. FTSC Standing Members
     ------------------------

       Name                   Node                    Term ends
       --------------------------------------------------------
       Andrew Clarke          3:633/267              9 Dec 2015
       Robert "Jame" Clay     1:120/544              9 Dec 2015
       Stas Degteff           2:5080/102            16 Dec 2014
       Björn Felten           2:203/2                9 Dec 2015
       Dallas Hinton          1:153/715              9 Dec 2015
       Mark Hofmann           1:261/1304             9 Dec 2015
       Andrew Leary           1:320/119             16 Dec 2014
       mark lewis             1:3634/12             16 Dec 2014
       Markus Reschke         2:240/1661             9 Dec 2015
       Fred Riccio            1:132/174             16 Dec 2014
       Carol Shenkenberger    1:275/100             16 Dec 2014
       Alexey Vissarionov     2:5020/545            16 Dec 2014
       Michiel van der Vlist  2:280/5555             9 Dec 2015


     A. History
     ----------

       Rev.1, 1997-10-05
         * First non-draft release.

       Rev.2, 1997-12-04
         * Reformatted document slightly. Working group Y2K added.
         * Working group members added.

       Rev.3, 1997-12-29
         * Year 2000 working group renamed from Y2K to Y.
         * Leaders added for groups C and Y.

       Rev.4, 1998-01-17
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 23                   9 Dec 2013


         * Group E added.
         * Leaders added for groups A, B, D and E. Updated member list for
           group C.

       Rev.5, 1999-01-09
         * Lists updated to reflect election results and resignations.

       Rev.6, 2000-01-02
         * Lists updated for resignations.

       Rev.7, 2003-03-31
         * Reformatted slightly.
         * Updated header fields.
         * Lists updated to reflect election results.
         * Removed Working Groups

       Rev.8, 2005-07-13
         * Lists updated to reflect election results and resignations.

       Rev.9, 2006-03-10
         * Lists updated to reflect election results.

       Rev 10. 2007-03-17
         * Lists updated to reflect election results and resignations.

       Rev 11. 2007-10-18
         * Lists updated to reflect administrator election results.

       Rev 12. 2008-04-13
         * Lists updated to reflect election results.

       Rev 13. 2009-11-18
         * Lists updated to reflect election results and resignation
         * of Scott Little after accepting ZC3 hat.

       Rev 14. 2010-12-08
         * Lists updated to reflect election results.

       Rev 15, 2011-08-30
        * List updated to reflect resignation of Sean Dennis

       Rev 16, 2011-12-20
        * List updated to reflect new term of administrator and
          2011 standing member election results.

       Rev 17, 2012-01-22
        * List updated to reflect node number change of R.J. Clay.

       Rev 18, 2012-12-17
         * List updated to reflect election results.

       Rev 19, 2013-12-9
         * List updated to reflect election results and resignations

     **********************************************************************

     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 24                   9 Dec 2013


     -----------------------------------------------------------------
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 25                   9 Dec 2013


     =================================================================
                           JAMNNTPD SERVERS LIST
     =================================================================

                 The Johan Billing JamNNTPd project

     This is a list of known JamNNTPd servers working. They are essentially
     the modern version of Bulletin Board Systems.

     You connect to them using the email client of your choice and you
     don't need any other software installed on your computer -- regardless
     of operating system -- but that favourite mail client of yours.

     Even smart phones can handle this, giving you the opportunity to get
     your daily doses of fidonet on the bus, tram or train on the way to
     your job, school or whatever.



     Updated 2012-03-11


     URL     news://felten.yi.org
     Join    http://felten.yi.org/join.html
     NETMAIL Yes, 2:203/2

     URL     news://the-estar.com:1119
     Join    http://www.easternstar.info
     NETMAIL Yes, 1:123/789

     URL     news://quinnspost.dyndns.org:60119
     Join    mailto:eskimo261&#64;bigfoot.com
     Join    Info in group +GETACCESS+
     NETMAIL Yes, 3:640/384

     URL     news://nntp.rbb.bbs.fi
     Join    Info in group +GETACCESS+
     NETMAIL Yes, 2:221/361

     URL     news://news.wpusa.dynip.com
     Join    Info in group +GETACCESS+
     NETMAIL Yes, 1:3634/12


     -----------------------------------------------------------------
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 26                   9 Dec 2013


     =================================================================
                    FIDONEWS'S FIDONET SOFTWARE LISTING
     =================================================================

                    -=:{ FidoNet Software Reference }:=-

         Type: M=Mailer  T=Tosser  B=BBS  D=Door  C=Comm/Terminal
               P=Points  E=Editor  I=Internet  U=Utility  ?=Info

     .- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -.
     |Software: Author     |Type |URL, Contact, Ver, Notes      Help Node|
     `- - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -'

      Argus                |MI   |http://www.ritlabs.com/argus/  2:469/84
                           |     | argus@ritlabs.com  Tel: 373-2-246889
                           |     | v3.210 on Mar 20th 2001

      BinkleyTerm XE       |M    |http://btxe.sourceforge.net     1:1/102
                           |     | v2.60XE/Gamma-6 on Nov 11th 1998

      BinkD                |MI   |http://binkd.grumbler.org/     2:463/69
                           |     | v0.9.10 on Oct 2nd 2008

      D'Bridge             |MTCPE|http://www.net229.org/dbridge.htm 1:1/130
       Nick Andre          |I    | v3.95 on October 13 2013

      FIDO-Deluxe IP       |MPUI |http://www.fido-deluxe.de.vu 2:2432/280
       Michael Haase       |     | m.haase@gmx.net
                           |     | v2.4 on Sep 26th 2003

      FrontDoor, FD/APX:   |MTPC |http://www.defsol.se          2:201/330
       Definite Solutions  |     | sales@defsol.se                1:1/101
                           |     | v2.26SW & v2.33ml FD, v1.15 APX

      Husky Project        |MTPUI|http://sf.net/projects/husky/
                           |     | v1.4 RC5 on Apr 24th 2006

      Mystic BBS           |MTBCE|http://www.mysticbbs.com
                           |I    | v1.10 A31 on Apr 13th 2013

      Radius               |MI   |http://radius.pp.ru           2:5012/38
      (based on Argus)     |     | fido5012@zaural.net Tel: 7-3522-469463
                           |     | Last Release: v4.010 on Jan 3nd 2005

      Taurus               |MI   |http://taurus.rinet.ru (Russian) 2:461/70
                           |     |http://www.fidotel.com/taurus (English)
      (based on Radius)    |     | E-mail: taurus@rinet.ru
                           |     | v5.000 alpha on Oct 11th 2004

      Tmail                |MI   |http://www.tmail.spb.ru  v2608
                           |     | Website is in Russian only

      WildCat! Interactive |MTBEI|http://www.santronics.com
       Net Server, Platinum|     | sales@santronics.com
       Xpress: Santronics  |     | Tel: (305) 248-3204
       Software, Inc.      |     | AUP 451.1 on April 26th 2004
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 27                   9 Dec 2013


     +- - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+

      Fidogate             |TUI  |http://www.fidogate.org
                           |     | Martin_Junius@m-j-s.net  v4.4.10

      FMail                |T    |http://sourceforge.net/projects/fmail/
                           |     |   1.66.0.33.gpl   (2013-10-17)

      JetMail: JetSys      |TU   |http://www.jetsys.de  js@jetsys.de
       (ATARI ST only)     |     | v1.01 on Jan 1st 2000

      Squish               |T    |http://maximus.sourceforge.net/
                           |     | Lanuis site redirects to above
                           |     | Squish is part of Maximus.

     +- - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+

      BBBS                 |BI   |http://www.bbbs.net  b@bbbs.net
                           |     | v4.00MP on Oct 25th 1999     2:22/222

      ELEBBS: The Elevator |B    |http://www.elebbs.com
       Software Production |     | elebbs@elebbs.com
                           |     | v0.10.RC1 on Jun 9th 2002

      Hermes II Project    |B    |http://www.hermesii.org
                           |     | info@HermesII.org  v3.5.9 Beta Final

      Maximus BBS          |B    |http://maximus.sourceforge.net/
                           |     | v3.03
                           |     |Archives back online at:
                           |     |http://maximus.outpostbbs.net/

      MBSE BBS:            |BI   |http://mbse.sourceforge.net  2:280/2802
       Michiel Broek       |     | mbroek@users.sourceforge.net
                           |     | v0.60.0 on June 5th 2004

      Nexus BBS            |B    |http://www.nexusbbs.net
                           |     | groberts@nexusbbs.net
                           |     | v0.99.41-Beta on Oct 16th 2002
                           |     | [Note: No Longer under active
                           |     |  development.]

      Proboard BBS         |B    |http://www.proboard.be
                           |     | v2.17 on Jun 9th 2002

      RemoteAccess BBS:    |B    |http://www.rapro.com            1:1/120
       Bruce Morse         |     | bfmorse@rapro.com
                           |     | v2.62.2SW

      Spitfire BBS: Buffalo|B    |http://www.angelfire.com/ia/buffalo/
       Creek Software      |     | MDWoltz@aol.com             1:1/150
                           |     | v3.6 on Aug 20th 1999

      Synchronet BBS       |BT   |http://www.synchro.net
                           |     | sysop(at)vert(dot)synchro(dot)net
                           |     | v3.10L Beta
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 28                   9 Dec 2013


      Telegard BBS         |B    |http://www.telegard.net
                           |     | support@telegard.net
                           |     | v3.09g2 SP4
     +- - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+

      Atlantis Software    |D    |http://www.jimmyrose.com/atlantis/
                           |     | Last Update: August 2004

      Cheepware            |DU   |http://outpostbbs.net
       Sean Dennis         |     | sean@outpostbbs.net         1:18/200

      DDS (Doorware        |D    |http://www.doorgames.org     1:2404/201
       Distribution System)|     | ruth@doorgames.org
       Ruth Argust         |     |

      DoorMUD              |D    |http://doormud.com
                           |     | v0.98 Jun 1st 2002
                           |     | Website is down after
                           |     | past the splash page.

      Jibben Software      |D    |http://www.jibbensoftware.com
                           |     | scott@jibben.com
                           |     | 1995-99 Release dates

      John Dailey Software |D    |http://www.johndaileysoftware.com
                           |     | support@johndaileysoftware.com

      Shining Star         |D    |http://www.shiningstar.net/bbsdoors/
                           |     | nannette@shiningstar.net

      Sunrise Doors:       |D    |http://www.sunrisedoors.com
       Al Lawrence         |     | al@sunrisedoors.com
                           |     | Tel: (404) 256-9518

      The Brainex System   |D    |http://www.brainex.com/brainex_system/
                           |     | stanley@brainex.com  1994-99 Releases

      Trade Wars           |D    |http://www.eisonline.com/tradewars/
                           |     | jpritch@eisonline.com
                           |     | v3.09 (DOS-32) in 2002

      Vagabond Software:   |D    |http://www.vbsoft.org        1:124/7013
       Bryan Turner        |     | vagabond@vbsoft.org
                           |     | last update: Jul 17th 2002

     +- - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+

      APoint               |PI   |http://www.apoint-mail.de  2:2426/1210.13
                           |     |http://www.apoint-mail.de/indexe.htm
                           |     | (English Version)
                           |     | dirk.pokorny@apoint-mail.de
                           |     | v1.25

      CrossPoint (XP)      |P    |http://www.crosspoint.de (German Only)
                           |     | pm@crosspoint.de  v3.12d Dec 22nd 1999

     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 29                   9 Dec 2013


      FreeXP               |P    |http://www.freexp.de           2:2433/460
                           |     | support@freexp.de
                           |     | v3.40 RC3 Aug 31st 2003 (Snapshot)

      OpenXP/32            |PI   |http://www.openxp.com          2:248/2004
                           |     |  (Site is in German Only)
                           |     | mk@openxp.de  v3.8.15 Beta Feb 10th 2004
                           |     | Download Page comes back 404 not found.

     +- - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+

      GoldEd+              |E    |http://golded-plus.sourceforge.net/
                           |     |                               2:5080/102
                           |     | stas_degteff@users.sourceforge.net
                           |     | v1.1.5 Snapshot on Feb 28th 2003

      SqEd32               |E    |http://www.sqed.de
                           |     | v1.15 on Dec 15th 1999

      TimEd                |E    |http://blizzard.dnsalias.org/fidonet
                           |     | mail@ozzmosis.com            /timed
                           |     | v1.11.a5 in March 2003      3:633/267

     +- - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+

      FidoIP               |MTPEIU|http://sourceforge.net/projects/fidoip
                           |     | Maxim Sokolsky 2:5020/828.777
                           |     | v.0.5_1 on Jan 11 2010

      GiGo                 |UI   |http://www.gigo.com
                           |     | v0109 on Jan 9th 1997

      Ifmail               |UI   |http://ifmail.sourceforge.net
                           |     | crosser@average.org         2:5020/230
                           |     | Ifmail is a FTN <-> E-Mail/News Gateway
                           |     | Program.

      Internet Rex:        |UI   |http://members.shaw.ca/InternetRex/
       Charles Cruden      |     | telnet://xanadubbs.ca       1:342/806
       (Khan Software)     |     | v2.29 on Oct 21st 2001

      MakeNL               |U    | http://hub2000.darktech.org/makenl
                           |     | fidonet.hub2000 [at] gmail [dot] com
                           |     | Fido:                       1:229/2000
                           |     | FidoNet Nodelist Processor

      Meltdown-BBS         |UI   |http://meltdown-bbs.sourceforge.net/
                           |     | meltdown-bbs.project.petkan
                           |     |                       @spamgourmet.com
                           |     | Fido:                       2:350/5
                           |     | Meltdown-BBS is an FTN <->
                           |     | Web/PHP/MySQL BBS forum system.

      RNtrack              |U    |http://sourceforge.net/projects/ftrack-as
                           |     |2:5080/102
                           |     |stas_degteff@users.sourceforge.net
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 30                   9 Dec 2013


                           |     | v1.1.4 Snapshot on Oct 09 2009

      TransNet             |UI   |http://www.ressl.com.ar/transnet/
                           |     | transnet@ressl.com.ar
                           |     | v2.11 on Jul 18th 1998

      TransX: Multiboard   |UI   |http://www.start.ca/software/multiboard
       Communications, Inc.|     | Unsure about support now but Free Keys
                           |     | are now available.  Donations accepted.
                           |     | v3.5 (Note: KeyGen is a Windows Program)

      Turquoise SuperStat  |U    |http://www.softwolves.pp.se/sw/
                           |     |                     software/turquoise
                           |     | peter@softwolves.pp.se
                           |     | Version: 3.0 on 2008-01-21


     +- - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+

      National BBS List    |?    | http://www.usbbs.org

      Hispanic FIDO/BBS's  |?    | http://www.conecta2.org/pucela_bbs/
       (in Spanish only)   |     |  (Extensive software & BBS Listings)

     +- - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+

      File Archives:

       http://archives.thebbs.org             http://www.filegate.net
       http://sysopscorner.thebbs.org         http://www.juge.com
       http://www.dmine.com/bbscorner/        http://garbo.uwasa.fi
       http://www.simtel.net                  http://wuarchive.wustl.edu
       http://www.bbsfiles.com                http://hobbes.nmsu.edu

      Note: most also provide FTP access
            (use ftp:// instead of http:// above)

     *=-=*=.=*=-=*=.=*=-=*=.=*=-=*=.=*=-=*=.=*=-=*=.=*=-=*=.=*=-=*=.=*=-=*

      Please send corrections & additions to: Fidonews Editor

         Emeritus: Robert Couture, Ben Ritchey, Todd Cochrane,
                   Frank Vest, Peter Popovich

     -----------------------------------------------------------------
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 31                   9 Dec 2013


     =================================================================
                             SPECIAL INTEREST
     =================================================================

                         Nodelist Stats

      Input nodelist  nodelist.340
                size  293.6kb
                date  2013-12-06

      The nodelist has   1931 nodes in it
        and a total of   2891 non-comment entries

              including     4 zones
                           35 regions
                          222 hosts
                          183 hubs
         admin overhead   444 ( 22.99 %)

                    and   282 private nodes
                           93 nodes down
                          141 nodes on hold
      off line overhead   516 ( 26.72 %)


      Speed summary:

               >9600 =    150 (  7.77 %)
                9600 =   1126 ( 58.31 %)
                              (HST  =   17 or   1.51 %)
                              (CSP  =    0 or   0.00 %)
                              (PEP  =    1 or   0.09 %)
                              (MAX  =    0 or   0.00 %)
                              (HAY  =    1 or   0.09 %)
                              (V32  =  552 or  49.02 %)
                              (V32B =   46 or   4.09 %)
                              (V34  =  757 or  67.23 %)
                              (V42  =  627 or  55.68 %)
                              (V42B =   50 or   4.44 %)
                2400 =      9 (  0.47 %)
                1200 =      2 (  0.10 %)
                 300 =    644 ( 33.35 %)

                ISDN =    129 (  6.68 %)

     ----------------------------------------------------------
      File Req Flag   Applicable software     Number of systems
     ----------------------------------------------------------
      XA              Frontdoor <1.99b              547
                      Frontdoor  2.02+
                      Dutchie 2.90c
                      Binkleyterm >2.1
                      D'Bridge <1.3
                      TIMS
                      Xenia
     --------------------------------------
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 32                   9 Dec 2013


      XB              Binkleyterm 2.0                 0
                      Dutchie 2.90b
     --------------------------------------
      XC              Opus 1.1                        0
     --------------------------------------
      XP              Seadog                          0
     --------------------------------------
      XR              Opus 1.03                      15
     --------------------------------------
      XW              Fido >12M                      46
                      Tabby
                      KittenMail
     --------------------------------------
      XX              D'Bridge 1.30                 591
                      Frontdoor 1.99b
                      Intermail 2.01
                      T-Mail
     --------------------------------------
      None            QMM                           732
     --------------------------------------

      CrashMail capable =   1044 ( 54.07 %)
      MailOnly nodes    =    921 ( 47.70 %)
      Listed-only nodes =    135 (  6.99 %)
      Other             =   -169 ( -8.75 %)

      [Report produced by NETSTATS - A PD pgm]
      [        Revised by B Felten,   2:203/2]

     -----------------------------------------------------------------
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 33                   9 Dec 2013


     =================================================================
                           FIDONEWS INFORMATION
     =================================================================

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     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 34                   9 Dec 2013


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     Fidonet     2:2/2 or 2:203/0
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     -----------------------------------------------------------------
     FIDONEWS 30-49               Page 35                   9 Dec 2013


                    Credits, Legal Infomation, Availability

     + -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --  FIDONEWS STAFF - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
     |                                                                |
     | Editor:        Björn Felten, 2:2/2                             |
     |                                                                |
     + -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +

     + -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -  EDITORS EMERITI - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
     |                                                                |
     |       Tom Jennings, Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince         |
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     |       Christopher Baker, Zorch Frezberg, Henk Wolsink,         |
     |       Doug Meyers, Warren D. Bonner, Frank L. Vest             |
     |                                                                |
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